Curse

Algren Cole · Jun 13, 2005, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caco-Cola

So what point are you trying to make? That words change over time?

Fine, retarded means lame too.

Why?

Let's say Person A gets a homework assignment he doesn't like. He goes 'man, what a retarded homework assignment.'

I guarantee you he's not saying that the assignment is mentally handicapped, but that the assignment is instead lame, stupid, and his dissatisfaction towards it.

Thus the guy wasn't even labelling himself as mentally handicapped, just lame or stupid.

not that the words change...or their meanings... Word uses change over time/global area.

in Boston we use 'Wicked' to define "to the greatest degree"..."That ride is wicked fun." "That car is wicked sweet". I assure you we aren't saying the ride or the car is "evil by nature"...

Nim · Jun 13, 2005, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diplo

I guess people offended by cheats, bots and offensive message spammers shouldn't play either? I guess women who don't want to be subject to sexist remarks shouldn't play internet games? I guess people with disablities should be laughed at rather than encouraged to partake? Yeah, let's not enforce any rules and let the lamers out their run wild. That's the kind of game I want to play...

Did I say we should have anarchy? Your argument is foolish, chaeting has nothing to do with our discussion, please stick to a valid point if you have one.

Caco-Cola · Jun 13, 2005, 03:41 PM // 15:41

We do the same thing in Texas.

You still haven't made a point though relating to the topic.

You say that meanings change over time, now you're saying they don't? Just the connotation of them?

Well isn't that the same thing?

Mumblyfish · Jun 13, 2005, 03:41 PM // 15:41

You're all ****ed. A Guild calls themselves Idiot Savants, and you're arguing whether or not they should be placed in the same category as God of Sodomy.

Only in the Guild Wars community.

Caco-Cola · Jun 13, 2005, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Nope. We're arguing whether the name 'We todd id' should get banned when Idiot Savant, which means the same thing - except that the said retarded person is good at something - stays legal.

If you read the thread, you'd know that.

john little · Jun 13, 2005, 03:43 PM // 15:43

this all sounds like a south park episode...

Quote:

Originally Posted by south park the movie

graphic deplorable violence is all right, as long as they don't say any dirty words

I imagine someone would find a British colloquialism like 'bloody hell' offensive, or the 'Father Ted' inspired 'feck' (which in itself could be considered an insult due to the comedy use of drunken Irish catholic priests).

I think the best thing to do is let people know if you find it offensive and leave it at that. If they continue to use it towards you then you know they are *insert non offensive insult here*. Don't get mad, it's what they want.

Myodato · Jun 13, 2005, 03:45 PM // 15:45

I think this is such a stupid decision. I don't know which White Mantle Justicar was offended by people calling his Savants stupid (which they are - they die so easily), but it's pretty lame if he can't take a little criticism. Where will it end ? Will my account get banned when I scream "You ******* *******" at the screen next time I'm killed by a Bladed Aatxe ?

Trying to be mildly serious, most politically incorrect or offensive actions are defined as offensive if people find them offensive. As such, chances are any name that gets complained about enough is going to get banned, however tame it seems. It sucks, but it's one of the prices you pay for associating with the general public.

Caco-Cola · Jun 13, 2005, 03:51 PM // 15:51

You better be careful Myodato. Your name could easily be misconstrued as Myodata.

Which is a health company who treats those with snoring disorders.

Someone may have a snoring disorder and complain and BAM, there goes your name.

Same for you Firax. Your named after a Media company.

Someone may find the filth the media portrays on television offensive, BAM, there goes your name.

Nim · Jun 13, 2005, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumblyfish

You're all ****ed. A Guild calls themselves Idiot Savants, and you're arguing whether or not they should be placed in the same category as God of Sodomy.

Only in the Guild Wars community.

No thats not what is being argued, try to follw along if you want to participate.

But since you brought it up the name "God of Sodomy" came from a prime time TV series called Law and Order, when the main Char, Lenny Brisco was refering to perp and nicknamed him the God of Sodomy. I guess its ok for prime time TV but not for a On Line video game aimed for players exclusively over the age of 18 :P But lets not bother with that name for now.

Algren Cole · Jun 13, 2005, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caco-Cola

We do the same thing in Texas.

You still haven't made a point though relating to the topic.

You say that meanings change over time, now you're saying they don't? Just the connotation of them?

Well isn't that the same thing?

the point is Idiot Savant no longer refers to a persons with mental retardation....that's simply the dictionary definition...it's socially accepted usage has changed even though it's dictionary entry has not.

Diplo · Jun 13, 2005, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nim

Did I say we should have anarchy? Your argument is foolish, chaeting has nothing to do with our discussion, please stick to a valid point if you have one.

You were saying that people shouldn't play online games if they are easily offended. Names that mock people with disablities is one way of causing offence, spamming messages is another, using bots is yet another. The point is that these are all activities that have the potential to cause offence that happen in online gaming - you just seem think that point one is OK and points two and three are wrong. If you think my argument is "foolish" it's because you can't understand the logical fallacy of your own point of view.

Oh, and let's be clear - this guy has NOT had his account banned. He's had his specific character banned. He can create three other characters and use those (and wait until the patch comes where you can rename characters) or he can delete his character and start again.

Nim · Jun 13, 2005, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

the point is Idiot Savant no longer refers to a persons with mental retardation....that's simply the dictionary definition...it's socially accepted usage has changed even though it's dictionary entry has not.

Where do you get that idea? What is the commonly accepted deffinition now? I worked at a college for LD students and the term is ONLY used to describe autism, I cant even understand what other use you are refering to.

Mumblyfish · Jun 13, 2005, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nim

[...]I guess its ok for prime time TV but not for a On Line video game aimed for players exclusively over the age of 12 :P

Fixed. Content has to be suitable for those twelve years of age (eleven, in Sweden) and should at worst contain fantasy violence. Evidently, NCSoft didn't submit the average Tomb of Primeval Kings match for approval. Winky winky.

Caco-Cola · Jun 13, 2005, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

the point is Idiot Savant no longer refers to a persons with mental retardation....that's simply the dictionary definition...it's socially accepted usage has changed even though it's dictionary entry has not.

Great!

The saying 'retarded' no longer means mentally challenged either.

It means something that someone dislikes and is a way to portray it.

Such as 'man that show was retarded, the plot line was stupid and the character acting horrible.'

Now, we all know that the show cannot be mentally challenged.

Thus proving my point of how retarded has changed in the vernacular.

Thus the name should be unbanned.

And moving on.

Edit: Sorry Mumblyfish but at 12 one should full well know what 'retarded' means and they hear it more in teh vernacular of their age group to have the connotation of dissapproval and not mentally challenged than those in my age group (18ish).

At least that's what was going on when *I* was age 12. Could be different now a days, I dunno. 12 year olds could sit around reading the Wall Street Journal and sipping tea now a days.

I'll let you know in a few hours if this isn't locked cause I have to go to my job and I deal with some 12 year olds there. I'll listen to how they talk and get back to you.

Rasp · Jun 13, 2005, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

the point is Idiot Savant no longer refers to a persons with mental retardation....that's simply the dictionary definition...it's socially accepted usage has changed even though it's dictionary entry has not.

Your point is no more 'right' than Caca-Cola. I've seen alot of children use 'retarted' in ways which it would not be 'mentally handicapped'.

When I think of Idiot Savant, I think of what the dictionary states it. Same for retarded. How one can be offensive, and the other not, just baffles me.

Nim · Jun 13, 2005, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasp

Your point is no more 'right' than Caca-Cola. I've seen alot of children use 'retarted' in ways which it would not be 'mentally handicapped'.

When I think of Idiot Savant, I think of what the dictionary states it. Same for retarded. How one can be offensive, and the other not, just baffles me.

/signed

Algren Cole · Jun 13, 2005, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nim

Where do you get that idea? What is the commonly accepted deffinition now? I worked at a college for LD students and the term is ONLY used to describe autism, I cant even understand what other use you are refering to.

Dr. Joseph C. Pearce in his book 'Evolution's End' defines an Idiot Savant as a person with a limited ability to learn yet, they have access to a particular field of knowledge where they appear to be infallible. When asked a question within their area of expertise, 99% of the time, the idiot savant will answer correctly. Outside their area of specialty, they are idiots.

Dictionary definition defines them as being mentally retarded...socially accepted usage of the word allows for one to call anyone with a limited field of knowledge, in which they excel to the highest degree, but fail to achieve even basic levels of knowledge in other areas, idiot savants. One who can computate advanced mathematical formulas without a calculator....but can't form even basic sentence structure, can be classified as an idiot savant based on socially accepted usage of the word....even if they aren't mentally retarded.

salja Wachi · Jun 13, 2005, 04:05 PM // 16:05

"idiot sevants" is a name just as affenvise as "we tod id" howver they will not get banded as they have a special connection to Anet ( see sigil contest)

what we have here is selective banning. the defanition given is correct for idiot sevant it is just as demeaning as "we tod id" but nothing will happen becuase there are some developers in that guild.

that being said we will have to live with it because that is the nature of things.

I am wondering if we tod id got banned cause he has won HoH almost as many times as idiot sevants has and they were having a little problem with that, but we will never know.

that being said have a good day all, and watch your naming (unless of course you have an "in" with Anet)

Nim · Jun 13, 2005, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumblyfish

Fixed. Content has to be suitable for those twelve years of age (eleven, in Sweden) and should at worst contain fantasy violence. Evidently, NCSoft didn't submit the average Tomb of Primeval Kings match for approval. Winky winky.

From the EULA...
Eligibility. Accounts are available only to adult individuals 18 years of age or older

Rasp · Jun 13, 2005, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by salja Wachi

what we have here is selective banning. the defanition given is correct for idiot sevant it is just as demeaning as "we tod id" but nothing will happen becuase there are some developers in that guild.

I am wondering if we tod id got banned cause he has won HoH almost as many times as idiot sevants has and they were having a little problem with that, but we will never know.

that being said have a good day all, and watch your naming (unless of course you have an "in" with Anet)

It's not very nice to imply things without proof.

Assume.

Quote:

Originally Posted by salja Wachi

what i am saying is that if you ban "we tod ID" then idiot sevant shoudl be banned as well but it has not been.

that is a fact not implication

I full heartedly agree with you. If one offensive name is going to be banned, then another should too. It doesn't matter what the 'socially accepted' definition means.